AngeleneHarmon.txt

-n -n -n >> Test time on two, three. >> Interviewing, Angelina Harmon, box 576, a war West Virginia. >> [INAUDIBLE] >> Phone number. >> [INAUDIBLE] >> 875-3635. And it's March the 19th, 1994 at the Coretta, West Virginia. Approximately a quarter to one Eastern Standard Time. This is being done for the Kentucky Historical Society. If you would understand that right there. [BLANK_AUDIO] >> What I'm gonna do is ask you three larger questions. Like what were things like in the cold fields when you grew up? What was it like now? And what do you think it's gonna be like in the future? But before we do that for the Historical Society, I'd like to ask you some historical background questions. I'd like to ask you about your parents and grandparents, what their names were when they came here and what their jobs were. And we'll do that and then we'll get into the other part of the game. So if you could, tell me who your grandparents were. Were they the first ones to move to West Virginia? >> My grandmother and grandfather were from Panther, West Virginia. >> Okay, from where? >> Panther, down in Logan County, I'll tell you. And now on my mother's side, my father's side is from Italy. My daddy came to this country when he was 14 years old with his daddy. Went to work in cold fields in Pennsylvania. >> And what was his name? >> Tony Vrandy-Marty, B-R-U-N-D-Y-M-A-R-T-I. >> And do you remember what part of Italy they were in? >> It was a northern part of Italy, but I'm not sure the name of the place. >> And what you say, he went to work when he was 14 with his father in the coal mines. What year did they come here? Do you remember? >> No, but they worked when they had them. The mules in the mines, the mules pulled- >> So it was around the turn of the century? >> Probably. >> Okay, and okay, go ahead with your biographical. >> Well, he came, his father brought him here when he was 14 to put him in the mines in Pennsylvania. And my grandfather took enough money back to purchase property in Italy. Then he came back after he had purchased so much land, he came back to this country. And my father helped him again with enough money to go back to Italy and purchase more money, more properties, the money that he made here. And then dad was called to the war. He fought the first war. >> Do you remember what your dad's birthdays were? >> My dad's birthdays, July 17th, 1894. But I'm not sure my grandparents are. No, they're at births. >> And when your dad was still living? >> No, no, my father's been deceased 30 years. But he worked, he came to West Virginia, went to work at Amonauta, where my son works now. Or will be working for a little while, they're closing that out. And he worked there and he worked at the New Hall Mines. And he worked over here at Corita Mines a little while, Barley Mines. And died of a silicosis from the mines. But other than that, I don't know any more about Grounded Out. >> Okay, what about your maternal grandparents? >> Well, now they were never miners. They were just farmers. >> Okay, and that's okay. >> Yeah, they were farmers. >> And when did they come here, do you remember? >> No, I'm not sure when my mother's people came here. But as far as I know, they were all born and raised in down in Logan County. >> Your mother and her people were on Logan County. Okay, so when did your father and your mother come to McDowell County? And were you born here? >> Yeah, I was born in Rotorfield over in Fustowelch. But my daddy and mother met just before the war. Daddy was sent, I think he was sent to Welch. Or in one of these areas to work in the coalfields, and I'm not sure which cofield he went into first. But he met my mother and more. And they married and had eight children. >> Could you give me the names of all your brothers and sisters? >> I have a brother that's deceased, Riggo, Redmont. And I have, he was first, then me, then my sister, Kathleen, and still here. And then I have a sister in Texas, Alice, and Delores, and Jerry, and Michael. And I have a brother that's deceased, another brother, younger brother. >> What was his name? >> Carmel. >> Carmel. >> Okay. Now, I don't know if we asked you enough. What was your father's full name again? >> Tony, Brundy Marty. He went into service, he spoke broken English. And they put him his name as Redmont. That's what we always went by after that. But his real spelling of his name is V-R-U-N-D-Y-M-A-R-T-I, Brundy Marty. >> Okay. After you, so you grew up in the coalfields. >> Mm-hm. >> And when did you start growing up? In the 30s or what? >> Yeah, I was born in '24. >> '24. So when the Depression came, you were a teenager growing up here in the Depression and through the stock market. >> Right. >> How did you, what do you remember about that? >> Well, I remember that we never was hungry. We never got hungry. My daddy always had a garden in the summer months. My mother canned two, three, four hundred cans of food to do us the winter months. But now my husband's family was different. He said that he would have to be hungry. A lot of nights crying for just a piece of bread. And I never experienced that during our time because my dad always found a way to make a dollar that we could have, that we never did, just get hungry. We never went hungry. >> And which coalfield was it you grew up in then? >> Ammonotta, one, and Burwin. We lived in, and then war. >> So you moved around in the coalfields. >> We lived in Coretta a couple of years. Then we lived in Ammonotta a couple of years. And it's just according to where dad was moved. >> But he worked for the same company? >> No, no, not Coretta. He worked for Carter Coakham in Coretta. And Coakham's Field at Ammonotta. And then my dad was laid off in, oh, I don't know. >> Was he a strong union man? >> Yeah. >> Well, what I'm getting at was, do you think he moved around so much because of his union activities or was there other reasons? >> No, they'd lay him off. They'd have a big cutoff. >> Okay, so he was just one of many. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> He wasn't single else. >> No, no, no. >> Okay. >> For his union activities. >> No, no. >> Okay. >> I've got a son that couldn't do that. [LAUGH] >> Well, he's a union too. But he's getting laid off too in Ammonotta. >> Okay, so you grew up in the coalfields, although you moved around in the coalfields to different places. >> Yeah, but Ammonotta and war was, and we lived in Coretta a couple of years in Ammonotta. And then we moved to Warwood, and we didn't move again. >> Mm-hm. >> Ammonotta's been in the same house in war for about 60 years now. >> So pretty much after you got to war, you stayed there? >> Stayed here. >> What was it like growing up, and what year did you get to war? Do you remember, 33, somewhere? >> I'd say about, I'm not sure what year I went into the war school. But that's where I started in the school, so I would have to be in the war. >> Okay, so you started it, and so pretty much you were growing up then, and was in war? >> In war. >> Okay, and what schools did you go to? >> Went to school, well they called it Faraday School, but it's Ammonotta School. And came to credit school a couple years, and then back to the war school, stayed in war school. I graduated from Victory Creek High School in 1941. >> And all your brothers and sisters, did they all graduate from the school? >> No, they didn't know. A couple of them got married before they graduated, and the rest did graduate from Victory Creek High School. >> Okay, and it's graduating from Victory Creek, and what year was that that you graduated from? >> I graduated in '41. >> '41, so you graduated, right? Well, what was, so you're saying though that your recollection growing up during the Depression in war was that your dad always had a job? >> Always. >> And your mother, was she working? >> No. >> And the only shoes you'd take care of? >> Yeah, she had plenty of work with the kids. >> She had plenty of kids. >> And she was taking care of the family, and so you always had 50? >> Always. >> And what was the situation like in war? Did you have electricity and running water and all those kinds of things? >> Yeah, we've always had running water. We didn't have inside toilets, but we've always had it. >> I always had running water in the house. Okay, so when you graduated in 1941, then what happened then? Did you get married or work? >> Worked in Michigan as a riveter during the war. >> In Michigan as a riveter for now? >> Two and a half years. >> In what town in Michigan? >> In, I know what it is, but I know my name. I can't think of the town. I can't think. >> You've been to the bad proofs? >> No, no, no. >> And in the big... >> It was out of Detroit. I worked in the Christchurch of Soda Plant. For two and a half years, and I was a riveter. And that was in airplane wings. >> So you'd help... Do you remember which airplane? >> No, airplane wings. >> And why did you leave that job? Did you decide to come home? >> My mother got sick and called me and asked me if I'd come back home and help take care of the children. I was over this girl. >> So you came home in in what year? >> '43. >> So you came home in '43 and did your mother get better? >> Oh, yeah. >> So you helped take care of the kids. So what happened after you came home? Did you find work or...? >> Yeah, I worked in several department stores and more. They had several department stores and more at the time. >> It was a private community. >> Oh, yeah. >> And, well, I guess, particularly, there were more that reminded all the people that you get. So you were... So when did you get married in the '40s? >> No. I didn't get married... You were young '49. >> Got married in '49. >> Mm-hmm. >> And then how many children did you get? >> I have three children. >> And their names? >> Steven, Thomas, and Susan. >> Steven, Thomas, Susan. >> Matter of fact, the girl is 41 years old today. >> Right. And what year of relations? >> You know. Lord, now you're basking me. Thomas and... Thomas at 50. Steven in 53. And Susan was 15 months, 54. So that Susan was just 15 months younger than her brother. >> So what was it like then? Did you work as you raised your kids or were you... Housewife raised your kids? >> I was a housewife and raised my children. >> Okay. Did... What was it like raising any... You were at war. What was it like in the '50s and '60s raising your kids and them children? >> A lot different than it is today. I can't tell you that. >> A different house. Tell us how it is. >> Different because Mother stayed at home and took care of their children instead of having to work. But now so many parents do have to work. I understand that most... The man and wife both have to work now. >> So you see working as an economic necessity and you see the fact that it's happening as a... You think... You attribute that to some of the instability in the family structure that we're in now. >> Exactly. >> Okay. >> I think if most parents now didn't have to work, both parties didn't have to work, that children would have more... A better outcome as far as the things they do and don't do. And I think a mother's... No, I'm from the old school. I think a mother's place is in the home. >> If possible. >> If possible, that's right. >> Now, what... I guess it says here on your sheet, as I said, strong union person. What... Where do we... Where does this come in and when does it start? >> It comes in from the day my daddy went into the mines and the union helped him through his paycheck, do the things that my mother's drawing today. And the checks that I'm getting today from my husband through the union. Wasn't for the union, how could I live? I mean, I can't live on Social Security alone. That's for sure. >> What I'm saying though is when your dad was... He was a union man. >> Right. >> And when did the unions come into the... Into what? When '36, '38? >> Oh, I'd say in that area somewhere. But I'm not really sure. I'd say in the '30s. >> I'm not really sure when the unions started. >> But your dad was a strong union person. >> Yes, he was. >> One of the things that, as we had said earlier, that the classic criticism of the union always was, there are a bunch of communists. >> Yeah, right. >> And that attitude that people got, I think, your father being of Italian descent, they always tried to blame that. Those ideas on those forums. >> Right. >> Did you ever experience any of that growing up? >> Oh, yeah. >> And... >> I was called hunks, rops, and they go, a lot of different names. But my dad always taught us to ignore ignorance. And that's just what we did. >> So he just sought his ignorance. >> Right. >> And did you encounter any kind of anger and hostility as you were growing up because of your father's involvement as a strong union person? >> No. >> Was it not? Well, that goes along with what we've heard from other people, which was in West Virginia, rather than it being a personal thing like my dad's pro, and you're again, it was more of a philosophical argument. >> That's right. >> Whether it was good or bad or good management or bad management. >> Well, the biggest thing is mining here. And you know the miners are not going to cut each other's throat, as far as saying, your union, and I'm not. >> So you saw them, the coalfields, when they did get organized, it was very much everybody was involved with the UNWM. >> Sure. >> Uh-huh. There wasn't a large group of people who were not pro-union. >> I don't think so. >> Okay. And so, so then we have in the 30s, your father was a strong union man, and then you worked when you got married in 1949, your husband, and what was his name again? >> Ed. What do you mean, Ed? He's known as Ed Harman. >> As what? >> Ed Harman. >> Okay, Ed Harman. When he was working in the mines, he was also a strong union person. And then what was your involvement with the union in beginning when and what did you start doing? Did you walk picket lines? Did you, what have you done? >> Women didn't used to do that. >> Okay. Well, I knew that when we interviewed people down in the pits and started different, of course, women. >> Well, back when Ed was in the mines, well, like I say, my place was in the house with my children and raised my children. And we didn't get involved in picket lines and, and the such as that. We, I never did. >> Okay, well, what was your involvement then with the union in terms of were you, were you working with women wives of miners? >> No, I never worked with any wives of miners. >> Well, what I'm getting at is a strong union. >> Yeah. >> What I'm trying to do is. >> What I'm trying to tell you is that I believe in the union because if it wasn't for the union, where would people like I be? >> Okay. >> And my husband was a dedicated union man. My son is a dedicated union man. And you don't take that out of a coal miner. I don't care who he is. You just don't take that out of a coal miner because that's his income. That's his living. >> And you, you saw your role then in terms of supporting the union as being a, being a person who was at home, who was very supportive of, of even if they had to go on strike, that's okay. And that it was, you saw it as your role to support the union's activities on the home front. >> That's exactly right. >> Okay. So what I was trying to do was just identify your, >> You're right. >> The way that you were doing it. Okay. So what after then having, having spent your life in war, what you've, you've seen all these, I guess your kids grew up in the 60s. How do you see things as having changed in the, in the coal fields and, and you know, what changes have you seen occur? >> Well, sure you've seen the changes. This, all the stores are closing. They don't, the, there's not as many miners here. There's not jobs for people here anymore. >> And you watch the out migration, is that, and some of the, >> Right, sure, don't have that. Yeah, they've had to leave because there's no place here, nothing for them to do. And they've had to leave this area to go into something besides the coal fields. But back when my husband was working now, the young men would get jobs in the mines and work, but after that, there's just no, no, no work here. >> So pretty much into the, into the early 70s, the, the, everybody that was still working in the mines had been there for a long time and had seniority and they weren't hiring and putting on and people were starting to lose their jobs in the 70s. When did your husband retire? >> In '71. >> In '71. And is he still living? >> No, he's deceased. >> When did he pass away? >> In '89. >> Okay, so he, he lived a good, a good while after he retired. >> Oh, yeah. >> How was his health? >> Bad. >> Black lung. >> Black lung, uh-huh. >> So it was, as, as I interview people and, and I discovered that so many had, so many health problems, I began to wonder if, if the solution for health problems for miners isn't like, like policemen, you know, 20 years in your out, you know, to where that last 10 years that you would have worked when you started to have these health difficulties that would just destroy you, you know, maybe that's, they may have it. Do they have that 20 years in their out or? >> No, just- >> Not the miners don't have it. >> Not the miners just work until they, until their health is- >> They're lucky if they can stay in there 20 years because that's when their benefits start. >> You gotta be there 20 years before your benefits start. >> Okay. And, and by that point then they've all started suffering and their health effects. >> All right. Exactly. >> Uh, did he enjoy his retirement? Did he, did he fish or hunt or? >> No. >> He didn't. >> It'd be the one. >> Yeah. >> He worked in the garden and in the winter months he just, we sit around, we talk, we did what he had to be done in the out. >> Uh-huh. >> But, uh, no, he didn't like to do any of it. >> Uh-huh. And, uh, so, so he, and you had your pension from, from, and he had his pension then since he's died you've had his survivors. And you still, the, I guess the health card issue was a real big issue. >> Well, I still had my health card. >> You still got your health card, but I mean it was part of this. >> If a miner didn't stay in there 20 years he didn't have a health card. >> Right. >> I have a sister-in-law, her husband liked about six months being in there 20 years, but she didn't get a health card. >> Uh-huh. And, and if she had then she would have had her coverage of medicine. >> I asked her why. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh, well, what do you see happening in the future in the mines? Or, or him not necessarily the mines, what do you see happening in the future? >> Well, it's going down. Calm and sense. I'll tell you that the mines, the big mines at Emelota is closing now. And my son says there's still work in that mines, but the company says that it's too expensive to have the coal mine now and they're just going to close it out. And he's been in the mines for almost 16 years. He went to Marshall University and got a degree in business administration, but he didn't, he wanted to go in the mines. And he liked it. He likes it. He was, I guess, like his daddy. He liked coal mines, but he's got a degree in business from Marshall. And now that he's been laid off, you know, and cut. >> Well, he's got something to fall back on. >> Right. Exactly. >> Mm-hm. >> So if you don't see the future of the community in war as being connected with the mines, what's going to happen to the people? And how are they going to make a living? And what do you see as the future of? >> Exactly what's happening today, welfare. >> You, so. >> 90% of our folks in war are welfare today. >> Uh-huh. >> And so in order for the, so the solution then for the future for war is to figure out how to get people off of welfare and onto something else. >> That's right. >> That's, and do you have any ideas what that would be? >> It's a sad situation that the welfare is doing for the people, what they're doing today, because there's people more able than I am to work. And I will work. Even today if I had a job out, I would go to work. But you can't get those people to work. You can't get them to come and cut your grass. >> So you see the dependency situation that's been created as a bad thing. >> Mm-hm. >> Okay. If you summed it all up, everything that you've gone through in the last 40 or 50 or 60 years, what your opportunity here to leave the world with one big statement, what would it be in terms of how you feel, things you're happy about, sad about, mad about? What's your biggest thing that you see? >> My biggest gripe, I guess, would be that my children just don't have an opportunity to have a job that they did years ago. And I think all my children would work if they could find jobs. And they would work in this area because they liked this area. They were raised here. And none of them want to go to the city to work, not one of them. But what are you going to do when there's no jobs, nothing to be found at all? And I guess the children just have to leave. The majority of them will have to leave here. >> Do you see that as anybody's fault or is it just, I mean, who do you blame for them? The politicians, the coal companies, the God? I mean, you know who's fault is it? I mean, is it anybody's fault? >> Well, I'm not really sure to tell you the truth. >> Or is it just economics? >> It could be economics, but it could be a lot of political stuff too. I think something could happen to the state of West Virginia because we are rated as the lowest of the low and it's unfair because we've got smart people in this state. And we've got people that will work in this state, but they just have to find an opportunity to do it. They can't just get out here and say, I'm going to work if they don't have a place to do it in. >> They can't create jobs out of it. >> That's right. They cannot create jobs. That's right. >> That's right. >> Okay. Well, thank you very much for the interview. >> You're welcome. >> And as you've done your picture yet. >> No. >> No, he's not. >> He really doesn't have to. >> Yeah, but we've got to have one for the better. [BLANK_AUDIO]