No DirectX or 3D acceleration available after full setup. #114
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Probably not the solution, but worth making sure you have a good D3D base before you override the dlls. Can't hurt? |
I did install that, no change. Here's my
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I would think you'd at least have software rendering as a (horrible) option. If I were in your shoes I'd try different |
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Before doing DirectX, you should first verify that GL forwarding is working with wglgears/wglinfo and opengl32. If it's not working it's probably a checksum mismatch. Did you compile the guest wrappers? You can't use the ones from archive.org - qemu patch and guest wrappers must have the same commit stamp (or at least that's the way it used to be, haven't used it in a while). You don't need to use boxvnt driver, vbempnt works fine (virtio-vga with the VBE3 driver) and performance is the same. edit: my bad, I just noticed that you mention compiling guest wrappers yourself. That said, you should still check wglinfo/wglgears. |
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@hughobrien @emxd Glad to have you guys chime in. Do your best as the Heavenly Ray of Light shines through the EVIL darkness engulfed in the project. @maxresd3fault I believe it isn't difficult to realize why such Donation was put up in the 1st place. Anyway, Donation shall deem one's free will and contribution in Game Preservation. We could have hoped Oracle/VMware would have done more in the past so that everyone has 3D-accelerated VM to enjoy their games. Or alternative projects such as PCem/86Box gain smarter brains that actually know how to "virtualize".
Oh, don't blame the web. The VOGONS Unprofessional Moderator @vogonsorg purged all traces of qemu-3dfx documentation off the face of Earth as though such had never existed. What a shame to be in such forums advocating "Very Old Games On New Systems".
Yes, you're right, this is still an open source project. Unfortunately, none of the Open Source licenses dictate a mandatory clause that such projects also have to be Heavenly Enlightened. So by the way of FOSS, you're free to help yourself ;) The better documentation has always been with QEMU upstream. The Donation gets ones covered for those cannot afford the time & determination in the journey of FOSS. It also comes with the bonus of Game Elections for ones to exercise on any games that failed to work on QEMU. Contrary to what many had perceived, the Game Election is the MOST valuable option to have out of the deal. Consider paying of such price to VMware/Oracle per game, even double of that and I am sure they will just LAUGH.🤣 |
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This is why as awful as it is in emulation performance I stick to PCEM as this QEM thingy is very complicated requiring lots of command lines and it appears to be more for Linux users rather then aimed for Windows user. If this Quey thing was aimed for a GUI experience I'd dump PCEM in a heartbeat in the fireplace and then spray gasoline all over it. Too bad there was never a simple GUI like the competitor that isn't really a competitor now. On PCEM quick time content seems to be horrible like I can run a full 3D game with little lag but have to dumb it all the way down to a Pentium 100 for a simple kids game that uses QT for videos playing in background. Seriously WTF? Imagine a QEM with a proper GUI for easy access to read and write. |
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This is perfectly fine as everyone shall have the right of choice, be it PCem, VMware/VirtualBox, DOSBox, repurchasing modern remasters/re-releases from Steam/GOG or going through the tons of hacks and hunting down fans-made patches that make games work. As *EVIL* as this project may sound, it isn't a *Death-Star* out to obliterate every other PC emulation projects. It simply makes FUNs😜 of the *STUPIDITY* of relating PC gaming with emulators that are clueless about Virtualization with endless spewing of Accuracy *BS*. PCem is a fine PC emulator, just don't be such a FOOL as "Max Payne works🤣" or "Incoming was Direct3D5 (and already works🤣)." There is no one other than PCem's own Mother & the so-called Maintainer could have wanted the project 0xDEAD🤣 -- the laughing stock of It's been no secret that QEMU is the 1st-class citizen for Linux serving as the backbone of Linux Virtualization. I will put it this way -- For ones who truly love and enjoy playing Good Old Games, to re-imagine Good Old Games in their BEST & HIGHEST quality on modern CPUs/GPUs, they shall have enough motivation to learn & master QEMU, as simple as that. Otherwise, just move on, find & play other games. Personally, I am not particularly fond of GUI experience. QEMU command-line interface is a godsend compared to VirtualBox/VMware. |
Not to me mean but it would be nice if one could be made then I and a lot of others could use it and dump PCEM in the toilet since it's been abandoned. PS. Do you think the 'new' owner is the same as the old owner? I've notice a major lack of progress for V18 which I now believe it's NOT coming out and if anyone asks they only get snarky replies on her forum. Please don't do that here as I'd really like to know what happened? Did she die from Covid? Someone she knew and she is grieving? I know grieving can be a long process but 3 years? Also there was a fan project called EMU GUI as an emergency front end for QEMU but since a Windows 10 Update me and a few others have reported the EXE results in a panic crash when opened. Someone was able to finally screenshot the error just recently since it happens so quick you cannot see what the error says. I got it to actually turn on only one time then after a Windows update never again. |
Also what's up with the Quick Time lag? On certain kids games I have to dumb the CPU (emulated) way down making it very annoying when emulating older educational games like Carmen Sandiego the one where the characters walk around on the screen and have the little kiosks. A more powerful non Quick Time intensive game I can emulate a lower end PII on my I7 10th core with little to no stuttering but a kids game? Heck no chance in hell! You'll see flying pigs before that! It's related I think to Quick Time being embedded something that makes the emulator chug a lug. |
Why has PC Emulation stalled in the last 2 years or so? I wonder if Covid effed things up? 2017-2019 was a major milestone in a lot of emulation that was thought to be impossible and now it's all dried up with whatever was broken still being broken. PC emulation especially was making grounds and now nobody seems to care. It would be nice if more competition happened in that scene we need a new breath of fresh air aimed for simple usage so you don't have to know complex programming to run it. Some kind of hybrid mix between VMWare AND PCEM would be a dream come true without requiring a degree to use it as a bonus! |
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Whatever happened to PCem or whoever associated with the project is none of my business. I simply poke FUNs out of such project lack of integrity and blatant lies about "games that work"🤣, its infamous "freaking" fast 3Dfx re-compiler and the *RETARDED* glorification on Accuracy *BS*. In my context, "virtualize" is always the smarter approach to emulation, more challenging and demands higher degree of intelligence in problem solving.
Not for me, or anyone having FUNs with qemu-3dfx. The last 2 years had seen tremendous improvements on QEMU. Notable mentions:
If you really meant to say "Emulation" as in the context of PCem, then even 86Box gained lots of improvements of the vast variety of PC motherboards/display/audio hardware that it emulates. PCem is 0xDEAD, abandoned out of shame of losing the spotlights. How could anyone still foolishly harbor any hopes for v18 or vNext?
If you desperately wanted to be able to play such a Good Old Game, then a small donation to support Game Preservation would have you entitled for 5 Game Elections. Exercise those options to have your games preserved and played on QEMU. |
How high up in emulation do you think the Steam Deck can handle either 86box or PCEM? There is no documentation anywhere about it's performance of such a thing. Is it impossible to use at all? IE: Wrong coding for the Deck? |
You could have asked in their discord/forums. For playing games, I wouldn't waste any time on both. If you have a Steam Deck, just buy the games from Steam. PCem and 86Box are pretty *USELESS* on thermally constrained profile typical for mobile CPUs. Modern laptops and gaming handhelds always allocate much bigger chunk of thermal budget for the GPU, including iGPU/APU. This is the reason why PCem & 86Box are simply the laughing stocks for anything related to gaming, being unable to tap into modern GPU prowess. |
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The Guest wrappers "bake" the commit hash in, which is then checked against on the Host. I have removed that check, which probably isn't ideal but it does allow it to work with the drivers from the archive.org ISO: |
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Until there is a proper QEMU or any kind of Windows emulation GUI (Which I'd gladly pay 💲💲💲 for it) I and many others will NEVER use QEMU as it's meant for Linux users for best results and even then it looks like a bear. If the 3DFX version had a paid way to have a GUI I'd gladly fork some serious money for it's development cost but until then nope as I prefer to navigate to my own ISOs instead of only what few games are guaranteed to work. QEMU will remain in it's snobbish based circle never growing but don't let me stop you from having your fun in your sun. I'm done. Emulation seems to be dead these days period no matter WHAT the emulator. 2017-2019 seemed to be a very strong focal point where a lot of emulators that could barely turn on got going but then stalled in the last several years. I look at Mr Sujano (If I spelled that right) for what progress there is and it's mostly been minor stuff lately or incremental specialty fixes. Sadly emulation is more and more being shut down. A few new small emulators here and there pop up from time to time in the background but nothing mind blowing lately. I mean why do we need more GBA emulation when we already have 2 major emulators that do the job quite well? Or MAME focusing on tabletop stuff and weird Japanese slot machine things nobody will ever care about instead of fixing 3D games. Hell what's that thing TeknoParrot has come a lot farther then MAME ever has for 3D arcade games and you don't need a top of the line processor either to (French imitation) enjoy it. Devs need to take a hint and stop fighting with each other. Just remember the purpose of Github is NOT your playground to throw dirt at each other. Peace out. Oh and if those folks at Pee See Em got off their butts and made for hyperthreading abilities they'd be in the ballpark on their way to score a homerun!!! BTW: DO NOT visit their forums it's full of weirs spam bots. Is there no manager anymore? 😕🤐 |
I don't know why your hate on GUI as GUI is simply command line with visual representation that makes actual sense and even if you were the most expert user of command why go the hard way and waste valuable time? Life is short and you cannot go back. BTW: There's nothing wrong with learning a new program if there was proper documentation for it but many (all) install instructions seem to skip important stuff skipping straight to the actual OS install not telling us how to actually set the damn thing up! They are expecting users to just 'know it' which most of the time isn't the case. It's be like buying a powerful 3DFX racing car and them saying it's pretty much done except a few minor things left to do then you find out you have to ensemble the entire engine and they didn't say that! You thought all you might have to is put the seats in and maybe some furnishing of your choice with core components predone but all they did was slap the body frame together (which is what QEMU does) it puts the body work together but YOU have to assemble the engine parts and make sure everything electrical goes thru and even then there is no guarantee it would pass even the most BASIC safety checks. They expect you to be the engineer and mechanic and logistic controller. Now if you were a huge fan of Car Mechanic of any kind of 'Mechanic Simulator' spin off you might stand a decent chance of actually succeeding even then still no guarantee of passing safety checks which is why it's always best to have the advice of a professional and be inspected. |
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Evening, has anyone been able to compile on Fedora, I am getting alot of missing dependencies. Appleframwork etc . |
I don't hate GUI, I just can live without it.
But YES, I agreed with you, $$$ always talks, though you have to demonstrate the earnest in funding its development.😜Talks is cheap ... I have a few recommendations for you to consider....
How about a kick-starter or coding bounties, whichever to your convenience? I will leave the choices to you. |
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The donation is "small"? Not really. Maybe I am just poor. I watched the videos and thought "why not just donate a few bucks to save the hassle of compiling" but when I saw how much I thought "this is just a paywall and a paid product really". I'd happily have donated $10 to save compile but $90 is a "full product" price and I dont care about the "extras" the donation gets you. Just wanted to save compilation time and donate a little so I could have everything in one box. I have 98 compatible hardware so I'll just assemble that. Sorry, I'm sure this will be deleted or ranted at but $90 is greedy (IMHO) |
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@methanoid You aren't the only GitHub user who ranted about the "donation". None of their posts were deleted. You can find a few more in closed issues. Yours shall be no exception. I respect free speech and all kinds of feedbacks. Thank you. Though it would be more convincing to highlight stronger reasons why the work only worth $10 in your mind, for instance, the competition landscape. When the project was launched a couple years ago, it was the World's Fastest & Only True 3D Acceleration Win98/ME VMs. Nowadays, SoftGPU also delivers 3D acceleration for Win98/ME VMs on VMware/VirtualBox. It can be an acceptable FREE alternative when your games work there. You can also sell off 98 compatible hardware to fully or partially fund the donation, a friendly recommendation. It'd rather be now than never. QEMU featuring qemu-3dfx with Win98 VMs are much, much more superior to real PC boxes running Win98. As more PC retro gamers get to know this, the demands for used PC parts will drop and so will the price. Lastly, it's FOSS. Even if I don't accept your offer, anyone is FREE to do so, even do it for FREE as of free beers. Good Luck! |
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@kjliew actually had a look now at closed issues and the pattern is worse than I thought... basically MANY compilations not working lead to people asking for help and then being directed to pay, sorry, "donate" I don't object to people making money. I don't object to paying for software, I just don't like the way you are doing this. My favourite example: HDsentinel. A small closed source program. Not expensive, $20, but protects your data so well worth investment. Like many people I tried the test version, I even had a cracked version but CHOSE to pay. And a few years after I had an issue and needed to email dev. I got a fantastic detailed personal email helping me resolve issue. I even had a few more over the years. Dev is a wonderful helpful person. Best $20 I ever spent and I go round everywhere I see cracked versions telling people to support the dev. Your "donation" doesn't give me any warm fuzzy feeling. The only warmth I feel is a rising anger at this. I'll go use other things. Maybe I will CHOOSE to donate in future (and not feel forced into it by the lack of support), especially if it gets to a more sensible price (IMHO of course). Just doesnt FEEL like FOSS to me. Doesn't pass the Duck test for me "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck." If you are (effectively) forced by lack of any help to "donate" then it probably IS paid software. Donations are also usually at a level chosen by the donor not the recipient but by setting the "price" you may as well stop calling it FOSS. I watched the videos etc before I found this site. I was very impressed and saw it was via QEMU and thought "great work, another example how cool FOSS stuff is"... and this leaves a bad taste I never thought I'd get. And I've never EVER complained about any "supposedly-FOSS" product before. Congratulations, you have a unique product now |
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@methanoid This is hobbyist project. It is NOT A SALE and the "donation" is the FUN that keeps it interesting. Yes, you're right, such combination is truly unique, especially the donors' exercisable privilege, as the incentive to fund for Games Preservation. And now the BEST part, the "Devil-ish" version :) It was a solution -- playing Good OLD Games in isolated VMs with the freedom of modern virtualized CPU/GPU "anywhere & anytime" -- that I had waited for 20+ years. Seeing inaction from both commercial & FOSS brethren, I took that challenge upon myself, delivering the hacked QEMU just for that. DOSBox unwillingness to step out of "comfort zone", Retro Gamers flocking into worships of *PCem's STUPIDITY*, why not just play a game of Devil's advocate for them to donate to something that actually delivers so much better than PCem? There would be no splashes of excitement if such a great Retro Gaming solution made no monetary incentives to prove its worth. It is a humiliation to the once ego-swollen PCem gangs & fans for exaggerating their flawed visions on emulation and playing down the potentials of virtualization. |
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Well you would say it isnt a duck.. but it walks and quacks like one. Sorry, you are wrong Yes, its unique. Yes, its better than PEem. Its also uniquely the only FOSS product I have ever complained about not being really FOSS or in that spirit. I do admire it (and you have my respect for your talent) but your "business model" sucks ass. PCem is properly free, yours is not. Hence people will still flood to PCem and nobody bar some enthusiasts has even heard of your "product". Your desire to make money from this is what makes it fail to get the attention it deserves. Your attitude also. I am not saying you are wrong about PCem, Vogons etc... but I can see why they got fed up with you. You could have been seen as a hero, but you are not. You wouldnt like what people see you as... but you are so deluded you wouldn't see it or know it without being told. I'm sorry for you. Really. You SHOULD be a hero. You aren't! |
@methanoid Then I would say that you have a wrong perception about FOSS, similar to once PCem's wrong perception about GPL license, as simple as that. PCem is FREE, but already 0xDEAD, whose author once dreamed to be a hero under the spotlights. I am sorry to disappoint you that being a hero has never been the project's intention. Making money, how would anyone resist?! This is the most effective way to be an interesting project. I definitely wouldn't mind if any commercial entities would approach the project for a handsome reward or having VMware/VirtualBox alike lured into the niche market of Games Preservation. Check out PCem forums, PCem "current" maintainer's paid jobs are more interesting than PCem. Hence, the project is 0xDEAD. Isn't this a good lesson? The more who flood to PCem, sooner or later as they discovered qemu-3dfx, the greater the sensation. |
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I've tried several times to use QEUM but wounded up in frustration land. Lack of goo documentation to newbies that are used to GUI interfaces and even if you were to get Windows installed there is no way to swap out ISO's or even hook up to a real CD where PCEM if they had their crap together could've had a very fine solid product. It's still good for what it does despite it's obvious flaws and beats VMware by far AND from what I've heard QEMU is more fit for Linux users it seems.
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From: kjliew ***@***.***>
Sent: Monday, April 1, 2024 9:24 AM
To: kjliew/qemu-3dfx ***@***.***>
Cc: KoghaandSooga ***@***.***>; Comment ***@***.***>
Subject: Re: [kjliew/qemu-3dfx] No DirectX or 3D acceleration available after full setup. (Issue #114)
Its also uniquely the only FOSS product I have ever complained about not being really FOSS or in that spirit.
@methanoid<https://github.com/methanoid> Then I would say that you have a wrong perception about FOSS, similar to once PCem's wrong perception about GPL license, as simple as that.
PCem is FREE, but already 0xDEAD, whose author once dreamed to be a hero under the spotlights. I am sorry to disappoint you that being a hero has never been the project's intention. Making money, how would anyone resist?! This is the most effective way to be an interesting project. I definitely wouldn't mind if any commercial entities would approach the project for a handsome reward or having VMware/VirtualBox alike lured into the niche market of Games Preservation.
Check out PCem forums, PCem "current" maintainer's paid jobs are more interesting than PCem. Hence, the project is 0xDEAD. Isn't this a good lesson? The more who flood to PCem, sooner or later as they discovered qemu-3dfx, the greater the sensation.
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@KoghaandSooga Haven't you ever noticed that Daemon Tools 3.47 was used inside the guest for CD-ROM support? You can If you still hold on to real CD-ROM drive on your main rig, then QEMU used to support block device forwarding. It should work for floppy and CD-ROM drives. I don't know if this may have been a rotten features that no one really cares these days. Who still needs a real floppy or CD-ROM drive these days?! Floppy and CD-ROM drives are mostly extinct in modern laptops, especially the thin-and-light. It is a good thing, the mechanical moving parts are the most fragile to maintain. Here's the homework for you to learn about QEMU. Have FUN! |
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How come Vogons isn't interested in X86 emulation for the masses anymore? All the topics seem to be about wrappers and such where if you go to older threads from years ago there was more of a push. It seems the spark has died and there is no way to rekindle it and maybe it's just my imagination but they seem more in a hurry to ban people too often for stupid reasons. Let's NOT have a forum okay? |
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The answer is simple. Most 3D games require graphics cards such as NVIDIA GeForce (or Riva), ATI Radeon, Matrox G100, G200, S3 Savage4 etc, and all these cards are quite complex 3D graphics cards, therefore they are difficult to emulate (especially if you take into account is that many of these cards like NVIDIA cards are poorly documented). Reverse engineering such cards is an equally hard and extremely difficult task, which is apparently why no one wants to do such emulation. By the way, this is a fork of 86box, i.e. PCBox has an emulation of the NVIDIA Riva TNT2 card in the dev branch, but this emulation does not work anyway, which proves how difficult it is to do such an emulation, but maybe someone will undertake this task one day |
This is an overly understatement with regard to graphics APIs conversion. Wrapping/Re-rendering one API to another demands both breadth and depth of legacy knowledge to be able to pull it off. This isn't as easy as you would have thought. Emulation can sometimes be simpler when one does not need to do reverse-engineering, ie. good & accurate documentation.
Let me play the game of Devil's Advocate again🤣, such yet another "Trash"Box is nothing but laughing stock of such a FOOL. Who ever believed the project could even deliver on all the "empty" promises is even more *FOOLISH* than ever to be considered *BRAIN-DEAD & RETARDED* -- NVIDIA Riva TNT2 emulation --🤣🤣 It is either a genius or an utter insanity to undertake such endeavors. Mark my words and quote me on this ... 🤣...😜 anytime. |
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@methanoid You're always free and welcome to look elsewhere for whatever suits you, promote other competing solutions, coerce or "bribe🤣" other "friendly" developers with your $10 worth. Or, just buy the games from GOG/Steam with that same $10 worth. Yes, they are cheaper than donation to Games Preservation. |
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Cool Project, I've been looking for something like this for a while. Makes sense to use a VM and offload the graphics to the host GPU. Most DOS games don't require it, just the later P1/2 DOS games with 3DFX and NV1 GPUs. Windows 95/98SE benefit the most. I saw you got Warhammer: Dark Omen going on Youtube. That's really cool. Virtualisation is a better path than emulation for performance. I also have MiSTer FPGA, It's not capable of running a CPU + Sound + GPU to the level needed for these late 90s games. |
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@DMJC Thanks for dropping by. I hope you enjoy the "welcom'ng😜" tone of "not so many" issues discussed over here. The project was highly inspired by DOSBox for DOS games preservation. Unfortunately, such endeavor also stepped on many as it spells the tone "Don't be *STUPID* forking out for inflated used PC parts, play your games in DOSBox or VMs on modern machines in high-res and max-out quality." OR, what a *RETARDED* FOOLs🤣 emulating Pentium II 300MHz with "fantastic" Voodoo3 playing 20+ years old games in 640x480 15FPS. at reduced texture quality, low view distance and without CD music on 125W Core i9-13900KF or Ryzen 9 7950X. Apparently, what made a FOOL the FOOL was 3D acceleration in VMs wasn't quite feasible in the past. Win9x wasn't stable and lack of support in modern VMs. The likes of PCem bluffed the world on CPU software rendered "3Dfx voodoos" calling such as 3D hardware acceleration for PC games. Last but not least, virtualization is BAD🤣 for games. Oh dear, the landscape has turned. Many just didn't realize how good modern virtualization can be leveraged for Good Old Windows games in pristine condition, retail originality and lifetime preservation. |
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Or in simple English "please buy my FOSS project" 😉
…On Sun, 19 May 2024, 11:16 kjliew, ***@***.***> wrote:
@DMJC <https://github.com/DMJC> Thanks for dropping by. I hope you enjoy
the "welcom'ng😜" tone of "not so many" issues discussed over here. The
project was highly inspired by DOSBox for DOS games preservation.
Unfortunately, such endeavor also stepped on many as it spells the tone
"Don't be **STUPID** forking out for inflated used PC parts, play your
games in DOSBox or VMs on modern machines in high-res and max-out quality."
OR, what a **RETARDED* FOOLs🤣* emulating Pentium II 300MHz with
"fantastic" Voodoo3 playing 20+ years old games in 640x480 15FPS. at
reduced texture quality, low view distance and without CD music on 125W
Core i9-13900KF or Ryzen 9 7950X.
Apparently, what made a FOOL the FOOL was 3D acceleration in VMs wasn't
quite feasible in the past. Win9x wasn't stable and lack of support in
modern VMs. The likes of PCem bluffed the world on CPU software rendered
"3Dfx voodoos" calling such as 3D hardware acceleration for PC games. Last
but not least, virtualization is BAD🤣 for games.
Oh dear, the landscape has turned. Many just didn't realize how good
modern virtualization can be leveraged for Good Old Windows games in
pristine condition, retail originality and lifetime preservation.
—
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It is *NOT A SALE* 😜, but @methanoid you're free to buy from anyone willing to sell. The GPL license grants anyone the freedom to do anything with the source code in compliance with GPL. |
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Honestly I have to agree with kjliew here, the code is publicly available, and is not based on someone's copyrighted work. I work on FLOSS/GPL projects as a developer and artist. My projects are derivative works of EA titles so I don't charge money for them. I work as a network engineer and make my money from that not my hobbies. Having said that, if someone chooses to make this their source of income that's also fine, it takes years to build up the skills/knowledge to make a program like this. The Sourcecode is available, and everyone is free to learn or pay for support. WINE has Codeweavers and this is essentially the same model where you can build WINE or buy the supported/packaged version. |
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I have donated and also took the time to learn to compile all wrappers and add SDL support to vdagent via mailing list patch. Definitely fun times to take the time to learn how do it. Even got Iasl\acpi support compiled in. Lots of fun stuff to learn.. Also other projects do reference this project and don't give away developer's hard work and hopefully qemu will just keep getting better and better. Thanks again! |
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If a proper GUI (doesn't even have to be fancy or anything just simple enough to navigate and do basic tasks) ever gets implanted then YES I'll be onboard the gravy train. I'm not picky if the supposed GUI is 'fancy' or not just want a basic navigation tool.
…________________________________
From: Nislaco ***@***.***>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2024 5:09 PM
To: kjliew/qemu-3dfx ***@***.***>
Cc: KoghaandSooga ***@***.***>; Mention ***@***.***>
Subject: Re: [kjliew/qemu-3dfx] No DirectX or 3D acceleration available after full setup. (Issue #114)
I have paid and also took the time to learn to compile all wrappers and add SDL support to vdagent via mailing list patch. Definitely fun times to take the time to learn how do it. Even got Iasl\acpi support compiled in. Lots of fun stuff to learn..
Also other projects do reference this project and don't give away developer's hard work and hopefully qemu will just keep getting better and better. Thanks again!
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There are some 3rd party gui projects like EMUGUI that can work with recent Qemu versions. It is just a matter of pointing them to the Qemu binaries. However, most of these try to oversimplify the features Qemu offers and are really cludgy to work with. In my opinion GUIs often make it hard to setup memory backend, virtio queues as well as options for iothreads which do work on windows hosts. It is pretty easy to make a bat script for individual OS, and once you get settings dialed in, I mostly only change core count and memory amount between different OS I want to run. |
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PCEM is really not worth it you can't even do anything fun with it as a system emulator. It is more limiting than it is useful or good at its own job.. IMO.. Dosbox Duam was more impressive, and it has not had an update in 9 years... Honestly lookup imdisk or Arsenal image mounter it will manage all your *.img/VHD HDD iso fdd etc that you would want to use with qemu or other Os projects. With qemu you are the boss and your hardware is the limits. You can run windows 98se with 16gb of ram. ~13Gb is for ramdrives, but you can use dos scripting to join ramdrives into other folders. Also Qemu will boot Dos windows 9x windows 2k up to windows 10. Or just pick a linux it will work. |
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QEMU (if your a sadist in complicated initial setup) looks great if you just want to play the damn fastest possible WIN9X games that ever came out lag-free and don't care too much about accuracy since it uses your actual host for speed beating anything PCEM could possibly do.
However for sensitive stuff that needs that exact hardware era (or at least close to it) PCEM and 86BXOX are king! 86BOX at least is receiving timely updates so maybe someday they will get to PIII era.
I personally don't aim for the fastest possible games so I actually do have a 'lot of fun' with PCEM for my old childhood favorites (many educational in fact) including some that run on early PII's which likely QEMU would run far too fast and be unstable with a bunch of funny results.
However a lot of the childhood games tend to have that quick time lag that causes random slow downs. Most I7's now with the K series of processors would I'm sure be able to overcome a lot of that. A base speed above 3.0GHZ being a must!
Other games like Descent would proably work best on QEMU and lag like crazy on PCEM but that's not the goal of PCEM and never was (unless Michael is changing it) which may be why he is taking so damn long perhaps Sarah has left behind a whole bunch of messy coding droppings in her wake.
Again PCEM and QEMU all depends on what your aiming for as they serve way different needs.
I personally like tinkering with hardware stuff on PCEM that otherwise would cost a fortune on Ebay with zero guarantee you'd either get it or it would work next month without dying.
Ebay is essentially going to a swap meet with a blind fold on and not ever seeing the person behind the project. Your hoping by luck they are who they say they are and nothing around them is being brigaded or manipulated.etc.
I think the real reason so many are leaving Ebay is both buyers and sellers are tired of being burned as stuff that old has a tendency to literally fall apart and sellers don't want to admit it and buyers are aware of it and try to explain it but get waved off so Ebay has to step in. I've had Ebay shut down scammy sellers that didn't sell what was advertised.
The few times I've done Ebay we've never done anything to the internals without making sure it works for a while so we won't be at fault for anything wrong which is probably why Ebay always stepped in when the seller was being a dope head despite having 'high ratings' which mean squat these days.
The only full lost I had with Ebay was we had a PIII laptop when Dad tried to put the CMOS in as soon as he even moved it slightly it (The laptop) came apart on his hands before he could gently open it up.
That has NEVER happened before but luckily I only spend 50$ on it as other era laptops were far more expensive and wasn't worth the return shipping fee to send back.
We were going to give the laptop parts back to the guy in case he wanted to use some of the components that may still work on something else but he didn't respond to the request. Too bad.
All these devices coming from the same era no matter how well you treat your machine(s) the actual plastic becomes brittle after age usually after 10 years maybe 15 max plastic just loses it's integrity.
Fact of life. Have a problem with it? go to God he made the damn plastic and made time age things.
Well actually Adam did when he ate the fruit disobeying instructions which they actually found the remains of the Garden in Turkey. But as long as time exist plastic will age and the components only get older NOT newer no matter how careful we are.
So yes PCEM is limited in what it can do but it's fun tinkering with hardwre/motherboards of that era that are on their way out the door and emulate the actual errors of said parts if you have a PCEM mismatched configuration.
I can emulate up to SB128PCI the grandfather of SBLIVE. I can tell just from hearing it that it was the 'Me First!'.
It is now safe to turn off your PC. 🙂
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…________________________________
From: Nislaco ***@***.***>
Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2024 12:04 PM
To: kjliew/qemu-3dfx ***@***.***>
Cc: KoghaandSooga ***@***.***>; Mention ***@***.***>
Subject: Re: [kjliew/qemu-3dfx] No DirectX or 3D acceleration available after full setup. (Issue #114)
PCEM is really not worth it you can't even do anything fun with it as a system emulator. It is more limiting than it is useful or good at its own job.. IMO.. Dosbox Duam was more impressive, and it has not had an update in 9 years...
Honestly lookup imdisk or Arsenal image mounter it will manage all your *.img/VHD HDD iso fdd etc that you would want to use with qemu or other Os projects.
With qemu you are the boss and your hardware is the limits. You can run windows 98se with 16gb of ram. ~13Gb is for ramdrives, but you can use dos scripting to join ramdrives into other folders. Also Qemu will boot Dos windows 9x windows 2k up to windows 10. Or just pick a linux it will work.
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You can passthrough pci and usb devices with qemu, so it is possible to passthrough specific devices if needed. Its only PCIE devices that can be wonky because pcie passthrough is dependent on uefi hardware. What's so hard about typing out: "qemu-system-i386.exe -m pc -hda X -cdrom b -fda c .. etc" There are several PC emulators available. Buts with turning any idea into an application the cost of overwhelming accuracy at the price of usability is its own downfall. As fun as PCEM was, even if you could compile it you had to deal with Sarah, and she was not very wise in the ways of how code actually works. It would be trivial to have PCEM on arm but at no point was worth their time. Honestly it was a forum and it wasn't hard to get PCEM going on arm, and oh snap, why not use qemu as a platform and call it a wrapper.. and then you get something seemingly nice. Good luck go for it. By design its not hard to compile qemu-i386 for arm systems and doesn't mind running across architectures. It will even boot win9x with softgpu off a free arm Oracle VPS.. You can even run qemu on your phone.. So if you take time to declare slots for your cards you can take your pc/games anywhere you want to go and or stream via spice! |
@KoghaandSooga PCem is 0xDEAD, the current maintainer seems inaction and given up. I am doing you a courtesy to solve their problems. I did recompile PCem v17 originally left by the author in modern toolchain MSYS2/mingw-w64-i686 with
I only use laptops these days and PCem performance is always more favorable on 65W or 95W TDP or higher desktop-class CPUs. Of those tested games, Pentium II 233MHz is more than enough for "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego" and "The X-Files Game". For "Prince Of Persia 3D", only the FMVs need QuickTime, which play fine, but the gameplay isn't much to be desired on PCem. QuickTime currently suffers poor audio/video sync issues with virtualization acceleration that has nothing to do with how fast or slow the CPUs run at. Linux KVM offers the fixes for modern CPUs that KVM features such as If you still can't grasp any meaning out of what being told, then do not worry. In short, PCem is fine, too. Have FUNs with it. If you could recompile it with modern toolchain (or find someone to do it for you), then it would be great. There is nothing about complicated initial setup for anyone with an open heart to learn and many have indeed attested. At least we didn't mourn in sadistic pleasures of an eGPU setup with Proxmox, wasting ones money & time on enclosures, Occulink, TB4, cables & PSUs etc. for those only wanted to play Good Old Games on modern machines. |
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You can build everything yourself then grab the ISO from archive.org, swap all the dll, vxd, sys, ovl & exes from the ISO for the ones you built yourself and you have a working ISO. Even after that though, no acceleration still. I suspect the key is in the custom boxv9x driver since installing that results in a black screen. Whats the point of this even being here if building it as it is doesn't work and you have to pay $90 to get a working build? |
What's the point of stupid rant here for ones just couldn't swallow their pride of getting a working build from FOSS? Have FUNs and enjoy the journey of FOSS. Otherwise, a small donation wouldn't hurt to support the project in exchange of frustration-FREE, BEST and HIGHEST quality retro gaming in peace-of-mind VM isolation of Good Old Games in modern PCs/laptops. You're also free and welcome to seek out other alternatives, or put your hard earned $$$ into used, junkyard-grade & failure-prone "Build-my-90's-Retro-Boxes" --- OR Core i9-14900K or Ryzen 9 7900X and yet still remain the "LAUGHING JOKES" of Accuracy *BS* from the 0xDEAD or whatever "Trash"Boxes you know of. |
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The 3dFX acceleration is not dependent on the box9x driver it is meant to give better performance. However any of Qemu's video device with a working driver should still get acceleration. When installing the Box9x driver on win2k I had to manually move the driver files into a separate folder for it to install without issue. However, ATI ,Cirrus and Vmware devices worked correctly with the right drivers. |
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I hacked the system, got a Windows XP VM with OGL & D3D passthrough working.... Instructions
You can use Turns out persistence can get you a free lunch. Edit: This should help y'all out a bit too
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Nice, if you have XP working, you can probably install chrome remote desktop and access from there. If you compile Qemu with Opengl support and Dbus support, you can run it headless and access remotely. Keep in mind Linux and Android guests get full OpenGL acceleration with the Virgl patches provided by this project. Msys2 provides builds with these patches and Stefans builds as referred on Qemu.org also has Mesa passthrough enabled. This is provided for free and maintained by several developers, willing to sacrifice time and effort to provide software anyone can enjoy. Its support for legacy OS software and games that is a paid service. |
@Dungeonseeker Indeed and that's the best part of life in rewards...😁👍... Though the "price" of "FREE" differs among individuals. Unfortunately, there was a minor shortcoming in such a wonderful write-up and allow me to bring it to your attention --- You should have attached the image after 3DMarks run with scores, preferably spread out the details in clear, to claim the trophy. QEMU featuring qemu-3dfx was meant to show, unlike those FOOLS and RETARDS with loads & loads of Accuracy *BS* in hiding behind the veil of deceits. So what's next? Start your own blogs or make comprehensive, precise & vivid YouTube videos for everyone to follow in serving the World? Oh Please, do consider taking cares of Windows and macOS folks, too, as many had indeed been hopelessly awaiting the **MESSIAH like YOU!!**😜 Are you the ONE prophesized to save Retro Gaming for modern PCs on the verge of 32-bit Software Apocalypse? PCem was 0xDEAD not without reasons, *IT's SHEER STUPIDITY* not to virtualize where such make sense for x86 for PC emulation in these days and age, in particular for playing games. Unfortunately, 86Box double-downed on the same path. though they willingly tag "Not Fit for Games". It is just as FOOLISH to play the words between "emulator" and "virtualizer/hypervisor" in the FAQ in so-called "The FOOLS' Pretense". What is even more surprising to me is, unlike YOU, folks with advanced Linux experience as mastering Fedora 40 KDE/Wayland and high-end 240Hz display would turn their backs on QEMU and deal with issues of mouse input lag (and this) out of sheer Accuracy *BS*. When QEMU KVM on 8W TDP n100 would smoke 86Box on 125W TDP Core i9-14900K on Quake3, UT99 etc. everything about Accuracy deems embarrassingly pointless for games.
(Chapter 666 Diary of A "Long 0xDEAD" PCem Fanboy 9:99)🤣🤣... and tons of *BS* about "emulated timing" rhetoric again .... |
Nope, once I;m done getting virtio storage working I'm gonna clone the repo and provide everything, fully built with full instructions and a full guide on how to build the wrappers. Being someone who agrees with the ideals of FOSS, I take it personally when someone tries to use FOSS to sell a product. Now I know how its done I'm gonna make sure as few people as possible ever pay your extortionate fee again. 👍 Heck, if I can be bothered I might build qemu 6 & 7 too and include them, just to be as thorough as possible. |
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Oh sure😁👍do whatever you can and how ever you wish as granted by the GPL license. I have come to realize @Dungeonseeker is indeed the honorary mentioned of LinBox-qt5 for 86Box. You could have done MORE. How about porting LinBox-qt5 for QEMU to offer nice & friendly GUI frontend for QEMU and maintain it for the World? Our friend @KoghaandSooga had committed to monetary rewards for anyone who offers that, so that he can finally flushed PCem down the toilet bowl to keep and play the games. Now, you know how this is done, when combined it with LinBox-qt5, it would make one sensational killer app for retro gaming that may kill off 86Box to ever being relevance in PC Retro Gaming or force the team to rethink the emulation strategy. It still intrigues me as why you wouldn't have started with QEMU right in the beginning for LinBox-qt5, but had 86Box instead.🤣😜 Please don't take it personal and wrongfully interpreted my messages, it wasn't too hard for anyone in Linux to realize that 86Box is nothing but a JOKE compared to QEMU KVM, SLOW as molested, NO seamless pointer integration, POOR audio, network and IO throughputs etc. QEMU being the pioneer in x86 virtualization has been around much longer than either PCem or 86Box. At least that was how the EVIL side of myself laughed at what PCem was doing imagined the project started in 2007 without the foresight into virtualization. I started qemu-3dfx in circa-2018 with just 3Dfx Glide and was already determined to find ways to leverage virtualization. It slapped hard right into the poker faces of PCem fanboys back then for what they touted as "freaking-fast", "fantastic" voodoos emulation for Win95/98 PC retro gaming that made everyone believe in accuracy matters and your CPU sucked.
It was too BAD that PCem couldn't get along with 86Box, united in defending the same ideal of "Accuracy" to prove the EVIL mastermind of qemu-3dfx wrong. On the contrary, amidst chaos and divided, one went down the drain biting its own words... what a drama indeed! So whose side are you on, NOW?! 🤣🤣 |
Progress has been made |
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@Dungeonseeker I think you are really misunderstanding your lack of skill and knowledge with computers and configuring software. All you are doing is showing everyone exactly what Box86 and PCEM unofficial was. Battler being a crybaby and taking everyone else's code just for clout. While barely getting any of it to work. Thank for your team's efforts and post like this that ensure Dosbox, Boxedwine and Qemu-3dfx will always be best in class for any emulation anyone could need. |
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I've completed the full compile without errors, running
./qemu-system-i386 --versionshows:So it has compiled correctly with the patches. I have followed the setup steps exactly according to this video you made. I have used the same qemu commands, all of it. After installing XP, I installed the drivers from this ISO you made, again exactly as you did command for command. I then used the wine-get install commands to add the files to the 3DMark install directory, and that didn't work. I get errors like this:
After that didn't work I compiled the wrappers myself as described in the
readme.md, then installed those with the same instructions. Same errors.I even tried building older source code closer to the date of the above driver ISO, from July 2nd 2023, to see if that ISO was maybe incompatible with the newest code, same result.
I've followed the very little documentation available exactly, if the installation instructions have changed as you work on this project could you please update them/test them again? I appreciate your work a lot, I know it is hard work, but I financially cannot spend $90 for access to better documentation. This is still an open source project, I would like some help :)
I'm on the latest Arch Linux with the 6.6.12-1-lts kernel, with AMD Vega graphics (ironically same as in your Linux video).
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