Prepare introductory text for the discussion about relationship and role of language

[552020]

• Finish discussion with the model: https://chat.openai.com/share/0e15c3e6-4726-4112-8937-914f3b3f9769
• Create issue for the discussion itself

[lmangall]

I like the quote "At the beginning was the word"

As for the content, this is heavier that out Cub3d parser. Of course there is truth in both thesis. But I do not appreciate to much to over-intellectualisation of things, such as language or this Friend's output.
"cogito, ergo sum" is not really nice I think, I would like to believe that the intellectual is not necessary neither to exist nor to be beautiful. And even though we can appreciate the mastering of words and it can represent art, we can also see as beautiful an use that would at first seem more "vulgar", and we can diminish the technical prowess for being simply technical, knowledge, and training.

As I know you like cinema, in french cinema we have only one Dialoguist that is know by all : Audiard (the father, dialoguist, not the son, director). He was known for his words and characters bringing "dirty slang" and poor people's words to a poesy like humourous level. Showing that the simple, uneducated people speak in a complex and rich way.

As for the analogy language/food, I am staying at a real Babcia (russian's Babuszka is more commonly known) to whom food is a real language and way of expressing (love, naturally). I have also learned here (and took note of) around 5 regional alternatives for really common polish word in know in "mainstream polish" (as instance a "cup" here is "a small pot"

[552020]

"cogito, ergo sum" is not really nice I think

This is deeper as you (impersonal you) may think. Or it's not meant in the way: you are only if you think. And more than a cogito, ergo sum is a dubito, ergo sum. Even if you doubt of everything, that you have a body, that the world around you is how it appears and you are in a Matrix and so on, it is somehow impossible to eliminate this principle, the subject generating the doubt: what would it mean, that when I do reflect on this, it's not me reflecting on this. The Cartesian cogito states just this kind of self-perception as the 'bedrock' we hit when we start to doubt about everything. I don't think I have a strong opinion about it, for sure is really hard to 'think' beyond it above all when you 'think'. And it has a really limited 'scope', adressing certain people doing a certain kind of research, the philosopher of the 'western' tradition: the only real truth I can see and that can proof that my existence is not just an illusion is the principle of self-identification/perception: this 'I' feeling.

I think either that 'existence' is fully possible (and actually more likely to happen) outside the 'intellectual' endeavor, but probably also Descartes was thinking like that. The only problem is that often we take stances, we want to have opinions (and defend our opinion), we have a world-view (which often implies a concept of truth) and we play a little bit the intellectual game. It's hard to dismiss it at all, and it takes a lot of effort.

And even though we can appreciate the mastering of words and it can represent art, we can also see as beautiful an use that would at first seem more "vulgar", and we can diminish the technical prowess for being simply technical, knowledge, and training.

But what do you what to state exactly: I mean what you say is also a well known esthetical topos. One of my favorite poems thematise this as well the appreciation of the small things http://www.paularcher.net/translations/eugenio_montale/i_limoni.html

As I know you like cinema, in french cinema we have only one Dialoguist that is know by all : Audiard (the father, dialoguist, not the son, director). He was known for his words and characters bringing "dirty slang" and poor people's words to a poesy like humourous level. Showing that the simple, uneducated people speak in a complex and rich way.

I don't think that 'uneducated' people can speak in a complex and rich way, the same way that the so called 'educated' people always speak in a compex and rich way. I guess the discussion started about the problem of me feeling dumb or bad makind constantly errors when I speak also German. Would you tell to an 'uneducated' person, depicted by Audiard (who I supposed was 'educated'), who would like to be part of the circle of the 'educated' people and talk with them in their variation of the language that she or he should not and more be able to speak his or her rich and complex 'uneducated' language cause it is rich and complex enough?

As for the analogy language/food, I am staying at a real Babcia (russian's Babuszka is more commonly known) to whom food is a real language and way of expressing (love, naturally). I have also learned here (and took note of) around 5 regional alternatives for really common polish word in know in "mainstream polish" (as instance a "cup" here is "a small pot"

Happy you have a good time over there. Is the Babcia a relative? And take note also of the recipe!