Preserve symlinks when creating virtual environments

[charliermarsh]

Summary

Historically, when creating a virtual environments on Unix, we used canonicalize to resolve all symlinks to find the "base" interpreter. This has some undesirable affects, especially for Homebrew-installed Pythons, because it means that we use the patch version of the interpreter as a base -- so if you then upgrade your Python version with Homebrew, all of your virtual environments break.

This PR modifies the behavior as follows:

• If we're not in a virtual environment (common case), just use sys.executable without resolving anything.
• If we're in a virtual environment, resolve symlinks until we find a non-virtual interpreter.

This leads to desired behavior for a variety of Pythons. The behaviors of various tools are collated here, with the proposed behavior on the far right. To summarize the results (AFAICT):

• venv uses the sys.executable when outside a virtual environment, and sys._base_executable when inside it. (This leads to non-ideal results for nested Homebrew virtual environments, as in the first column on the spreadsheet.)
• The latest virtualenv looks mostly like current-uv (it fully resolves the executable).
• Prior versions of virtualenv did something else that looks more like this PR.

Closes #1640.
Closes #1795.

[charliermarsh]

For posterity (and testing), I used this janky script to test various behaviors:

import sys
import subprocess
import os
import tempfile

def create_venv_and_print_info(python_path):
    virtualenv = '20.25.0'
    uv = True
    cargo = False

    # Create a temporary directory for the first venv
    with tempfile.TemporaryDirectory() as temp_dir:
        # Create first venv using subprocess
        if cargo:
            subprocess.run(['../uv/target/debug/uv', 'venv', '-p', python_path, temp_dir], check=True)
        elif uv:
            subprocess.run(['uv', 'venv', '-p', python_path, temp_dir], check=True)
        elif virtualenv is None:
            subprocess.run([python_path, '-m', 'venv', temp_dir], check=True)
        else:
            subprocess.run(['uvx', f'virtualenv@{virtualenv}', '-p', python_path, temp_dir], check=True)

        # Path to the Python binary in the first venv
        venv_python = os.path.join(temp_dir, 'bin', 'python')

        # Run Python in the nested venv to get the required information
        command = f'{venv_python} -c "import sys; print(sys._base_executable); print(sys.base_prefix)"'
        result = subprocess.run(command, shell=True, capture_output=True, text=True, check=True)

        # Print nested venv information
        with open(os.path.join(temp_dir, 'pyvenv.cfg'), 'r') as f:
            for line in f:
                if line.startswith('home ='):
                    print(line.split('=')[1].strip())
                    break

        print(result.stdout.strip().split('\n')[0])
        print(result.stdout.strip().split('\n')[1])
        
        # Create a nested temporary directory for the second venv
        with tempfile.TemporaryDirectory() as nested_temp_dir:
            # Create nested venv using subprocess
            if cargo:
                subprocess.run(['../uv/target/debug/uv', 'venv', '-p', venv_python, nested_temp_dir], check=True)
            elif uv:
                subprocess.run(['uv', 'venv', '-p', venv_python, nested_temp_dir], check=True)
            elif virtualenv is None:
                subprocess.run([venv_python, '-m', 'venv', nested_temp_dir], check=True)
            else:
                subprocess.run(['uvx', f'virtualenv@{virtualenv}', '-p', venv_python, nested_temp_dir], check=True)

            # Path to the Python binary in the nested venv
            nested_venv_python = os.path.join(nested_temp_dir, 'bin', 'python')
            
            # Run Python in the nested venv to get the required information
            command = f'{nested_venv_python} -c "import sys; print(sys._base_executable); print(sys.base_prefix)"'
            result = subprocess.run(command, shell=True, capture_output=True, text=True, check=True)

            # Print nested venv information
            with open(os.path.join(nested_temp_dir, 'pyvenv.cfg'), 'r') as f:
                for line in f:
                    if line.startswith('home ='):
                        print(line.split('=')[1].strip())
                        break

            print(result.stdout.strip().split('\n')[0])
            print(result.stdout.strip().split('\n')[1])

        

if __name__ == '__main__':
    if len(sys.argv) != 2:
        print("Usage: python script.py <path_to_python_interpreter>")
        sys.exit(1)

    python_interpreter_path = sys.argv[1]
    create_venv_and_print_info(python_interpreter_path)

[ofek]

Would the proposed solution break this person's situation? pypa/virtualenv#2682

[charliermarsh]

Probably yeah.

[charliermarsh]

But I think it's the right tradeoff to have the behavior here and break that unusual setup. Per pypa/virtualenv#2770 (comment) though we could also just keep resolving while it's not a "Python environment".

[ofek]

I was actually just about to link you the same recommendation 🙂 Can we please consider doing that instead?

[charliermarsh]

I'm not really sure how to detect that.

[ofek]

cc @pfmoore for visibility

[ofek]

Ah it seems that's also what someone recommended recently on the corresponding CPython issue:

• venv base path does not resolve symlinks using realpath() python/cpython#106045 (comment)
• gh-106045: Fix venv creation from a python executable symlink python/cpython#115237

[charliermarsh]

I don't fully understand the motivation for that CPython PR. That seems to be recursively resolving symlinks regardless of whether it's a virtual environment or not. Why would that not break the Homebrew case?

[ofek]

Perhaps it would, I haven't looked at the code so much as I wanted to just bring it to your attention in case it helps in the implementation of Paul's idea.

[charliermarsh]

I think it still would because it's recursively resolving symlinks for home. But maybe it solves a different problem.

[charliermarsh]

(We seem to have this same issue in our test suite, we have symlinks to Pythons that aren't a full "install tree", just an executable.)

[zanieb]

(We seem to have this same issue in our test suite, we have symlinks to Pythons that aren't a full "install tree", just an executable.)

This suggests we should take on some long needed improvements to our mock Python installations in tests.

[charliermarsh]

I'm not sure... I'm starting to wonder if this is really the right solution.

[charliermarsh]

Like, I need to figure out how we can know that /opt/homebrew/opt/[email protected]/bin/python3.12 is a fine place to stop, but /Users/crmarsh/.local/share/uv/tests/.tmpgNwkV3/python/3.12/python3 is not.

[charliermarsh]

E.g., we could check if /opt/homebrew/opt/[email protected]/bin/python3.12/../../lib exists, but like...

[charliermarsh]

Other options include...

• Use sys._base_executable on Unix, like venv. We'd get the "right" behavior for Homebrew, but not with nested virtualenvs (which is maybe fine).

• Stick with what we have here, fix our test suite setup, and call "symlinks that aren't Python installations" unsupported.

• Stick with our current behavior.

[ofek]

FYI not sure if UV has the same concept but Hatch won't even consider certain paths as eligible for creating virtual environments if they are not considered stable: https://github.com/pypa/hatch/blob/hatch-v1.13.0/src/hatch/env/virtual.py#L411-L430

[charliermarsh]

Ah yeah, we don't have such a concept.

[zanieb]

Stick with what we have here, fix our test suite setup, and call "symlinks that aren't Python installations" unsupported.

This breaks the goals of creating a stable Python versions directory as described in this internal design. Of course, we can do whatever we want for executables we control. But I was hoping that requirement would help inform the generalized solution.

[charliermarsh]

If we just want to resolve the linked issues, I think using sys._base_executable would do that in most cases.

[charliermarsh]

This is really complicated and may need to be resolved in the standard library (if at all). I'm tempted to just emulate the standard library behavior for now (use sys._base_executable rather than canonicalizing).

[ofek]

I'm tempted to just emulate the standard library behavior for now (use sys._base_executable rather than canonicalizing).

Wouldn't maintaining the current behavior cause the least amount of breakage? Not in the sense of UV but overall use.

[charliermarsh]

Do you mean, least disruption for existing users ? Or does the current behavior do something that you prefer as compared to the standard library?

[ofek]

I'm just trying to understand, since there is not a great complete solution, which implementation breaks the fewest number of people based on your understanding of use cases in the wild.

[pfmoore]

I've not really been following the variations on this, so I'm struggling to keep clear in my mind what's being proposed and what the various behaviours are. But my basic view is that no-one is served by having venv, virtualenv and uv behave differently when it comes to creating virtual environments. With that in mind, and given that venv is part of the stdlib, I would prefer it if:

1. uv and virtualenv did the same as venv does.
2. If there's a case for different behaviour, it gets proposed as a change to venv in the first place, with 3rd party tools changing once the core developers accept the new behaviour. I'm fine with tools implementing the new behaviour before it becomes available in the stdlib, as long as it's been accepted for the stdlib.

The use cases I am aware of here are described in pypa/virtualenv#2682 and pypa/virtualenv#2770. Virtualenv "fixed" 2682, breaking compatibility with venv in the process. I personally believe that was a mistake (for the reasons I state above) but python/cpython#106045 was raised asking for the corresponding change in venv, and if that gets accepted (it hasn't yet) then the current behaviour of virtualenv would (IMO) be OK on the basis of being in alignment with the accepted behaviour of venv.

I'm just trying to understand, since there is not a great complete solution, which implementation breaks the fewest number of people based on your understanding of use cases in the wild.

As noted, I only know of 2 cases, and I would also be interested if uv is aware of any others. As pypa/virtualenv#2682 affects Homebrew users, I suspect that it affects more users than the other issue. But having said that, no Homebrew users had complained about the behaviour of virtualenv or venv until January of this year, suggesting that it can't be that common a problem (given how many people use Homebrew...)

This is really complicated and may need to be resolved in the standard library (if at all). I'm tempted to just emulate the standard library behavior for now (use sys._base_executable rather than canonicalizing).

To be honest, that seems to me to be by far the safest option. If you do this, the only thing I'd suggest is that you keep an eye on python/cpython#106045 - I see @konstin is active on that issue, though, so you have that covered.

One other thing I'll note. The original post here said:

If we're in a virtual environment, resolve symlinks until we find a non-virtual interpreter.

I don't know if that's still the behaviour, but it seems like it would be broken on Windows. Windows virtual environments (at least ones created by venv, and I assume all others) don't use symlinks to point back to the base interpreter. Instead they use a custom launcher executable (which is undocumented, and considered an implementation detail). The only supported way of finding the environment's base interpreter is by reading sys.base_prefix (or the home key in `pyvenv.cfg) and locating the executable from there.

[zanieb]

But having said that, no Homebrew users had complained about the behaviour of virtualenv or venv until January of this year, suggesting that it can't be that common a problem (given how many people use Homebrew...)

I think it's very common for people to have their Homebrew virtual environments broken during patch version upgrades, e.g., there are a lot of complaints about this in pipx which I presume uses one of those two libraries for virtual environment creation. From what I understand, if it did not completely resolve the path, it'd use the minor-version directory that Homebrew constructs to avoid this problem and the user experience would be improved. I'm surprised you haven't seen complaints about this, it's a frequent pain point people highlight with Homebrew Python.

(Besides this nit, I think I'm pretty well aligned with your summary)

[charliermarsh]

Thanks for chiming in @pfmoore -- I really appreciate it. I'm in agreement with your summary:

1. Ideally, we should have the same functional behavior as the standard library, at least as far as correctness goes.
2. As such, we should use sys._base_executable for now.

For uv users, using sys._base_executable will not change behavior for the vast majority of cases, but it will fix the Homebrew issues that have been reported.

I only have a few other misc. comments to offer:

But having said that, no Homebrew users had complained about the behaviour of virtualenv or venv until January of this year, suggesting that it can't be that common a problem (given how many people use Homebrew...)

I think venv actually has the "right" behavior for Homebrew (see sheet), in that it resolves home to (e.g.) /opt/homebrew/opt/[email protected]/bin. This matched prior versions of virtualenv, but not the most recent releases. From that perspective, uv was diverging, and the change to use sys._base_executable will bring it into alignment with the standard library and "fix" that issue (which was reported to us several times).

Regarding pypa/virtualenv#2682 and python/cpython#106045: it's true that we'll now suffer from these issues, but I have some suspicion that there's more going on there than just the realpath resolution, as per @konstin's comments and testing. Those also seem like minority cases.

I don't know if that's still the behaviour, but it seems like it would be broken on Windows.

We actually already used sys._base_executable on Windows, and this PR didn't touch the Windows behavior. So today at least I think we're actually closer to python -m venv on Windows than we are on Linux.

[charliermarsh]

Ok, I'm pursuing those changes in #8481 rather than repurposing this PR.

[konstin]

As noted, I only know of 2 cases, and I would also be interested if uv is aware of any others. As pypa/virtualenv#2682 affects Homebrew users, I suspect that it affects more users than the other issue. But having said that, no Homebrew users had complained about the behaviour of virtualenv or venv until January of this year, suggesting that it can't be that common a problem (given how many people use Homebrew...)

From personal experience with Python users, these problems are underreported. I'm for example affected by #1795, but would have never considered reporting it.

I also want to reraise python/cpython#114476: To have consensus between tools, we need a documented API with the correct value.

[charliermarsh]

In #8484, I also found that I needed to use a heuristic to workaround a limitation in the python-build-standalone builds (if
you symlink one of those binaries to another location, sys._base_executable resolves to that new location, so home gets set to something that isn't a Python installation). Related: indygreg/python-build-standalone#380.

The heuristic I have there, for now, is: if sys._base_executable isn't in the scripts path, resolve the symlink and try again. I don't know if that's entirely sound, though.

[charliermarsh]

Closing in favor of #8481.