Bungo Fruit, Gatfruit, and Capfruit can be cut open for contents.

[hyperDelegate]

About the PR

Bungo Fruit, Gatfruit, and Capfruit can now be butchered with a knife towercap style.

Why / Balance

While most dietary restrictions have very minimal gameplay impacts, moths not being to eat gatfruit or bungo actually makes things a lot harder for traitor + botanist moths in a way that really sucks to find out about midround. Being able to slice them open makes gatfruit viable for moths in combat and also makes things slightly easier for bungo pit harvesting. The "you can't eat the (produce) with a (tool)" thing is fucky for all log type items, not introduced by this PR.

Technical details

Added log type to gatfruit, capfruit, and bungo fruit with matching spawned prototypes to eating.

Media

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA7owWiT7yA (video too big to upload directly)

Requirements

• I have read and am following the Pull Request and Changelog Guidelines.
• I have added media to this PR or it does not require an ingame showcase.

Breaking changes

None that I'm aware of

Changelog

🆑

• tweak: Bungo Fruit, Capfruit, and Gatfruit can now be cut open with a knife.

[SlimmSlamm]

This is the intention though with picking a race. Not every race is going to be able to do everything. Take a look at Diona and how they cannot wear shoes at all. This makes them very bad for most combative roles like Nukie, Salvage and, Security as they cant wear magboots or noslips. If moths are going to be allowed to eat something that they cannot digest then Diona should be able to wear magboots and noslips.

[Kadeo64]

I don't think moths should be able to eat gatfruit normally. However, I think that giving moths the ability to like, bite open the gatfruit with a longer doafter and then spit the gatfruit shreds out (creating a small crumpled up gatfruit item that would be easily disposed of through a recycler or reclaimer) would be a better way of doing this.

[Admiral-Obvious-001]

I don't think moths should be able to eat gatfruit normally. However, I think that giving moths the ability to like, bite open the gatfruit with a longer doafter and then spit the gatfruit shreds out (creating a small crumpled up gatfruit item that would be easily disposed of through a recycler or reclaimer) would be a better way of doing this.

This sounds like unnecessary item bloat tbh. Not that I don't think it would be interesting.

Moths can already get around this issue by feeding the gat to a mouse. I don't see how this change would have any actual negative impact on anyone or anything.

[Kadeo64]

I don't think moths should be able to eat gatfruit normally. However, I think that giving moths the ability to like, bite open the gatfruit with a longer doafter and then spit the gatfruit shreds out (creating a small crumpled up gatfruit item that would be easily disposed of through a recycler or reclaimer) would be a better way of doing this.

discord user brings up a good point about this

[Entvari]

Despite what the comment swarm has determined I think this is a perfectly fine change that just makes traitor botanist a bit easier as a moth.
Gatfruits are already somewhat of an uncommon pick so making it more convenient to use is for the better IMO.
(Also this PR should effect Capfruits and fake Capfruits too, since they're practically the same)

[Djungelskog2]

this feels like it partially negates some parts of moths downsides which I dont think is needed, cotton pizzas and cotton based foods expanded on their mechanics rather than explicitly being a balance decision.

[SlimmSlamm]

Despite what the comment swarm has determined I think this is a perfectly fine change that just makes traitor botanist a bit easier as a moth.

It completely removes the negatives from picking a Moth as a race though.

[hyperDelegate]

Whoops forgot capfruit. Anyways, gatfruit lets you combat reload with a plant bag for everyone else so it's actually a really big deal for botanist traitors to be able to eat it on the fly.

[saintlygold]

This is the intention though with picking a race.
Yes, but this is an already extremely niche scenario on an already disadvantaged species that can be bypassed annoyingly, similarly to how moths take pills with water. For player clarity, I don't see any reason why the process shouldn't be streamlined to remove the step of.. waiting for a mouse to spawn on the map and trying to seek it out. That's just anti-fun if I have to scrounge across the entire map to utilize an already underused Traitor item for one job in the game.

If moths are going to be allowed to eat something that they cannot digest then Diona should be able to wear magboots and noslips.
Strawman argument.

Gatfruit is already an absurdly underused traitor item because it's heavily metagamed, it's job specific, and it doesn't come with the AP you'd expect out of a Python. Nine times out of ten, you should just be buying a Viper from the uplink instead.
I have not seen this item used once my entire time on the game. I have not used it once my entire time on the game, because as a Moth, it's even more difficult not to get metagamed if I have to set it down for a mouse to eat or look for another traitor to eat it for me. This doesn't make moths any better, it doesn't drastically change the meta, and it's benefitting the maybe one or two players in the game who consider using Gatfruit in rare scenarios if they ever decide to play moth.

[Minemoder5000]

The inability for moths to eat gatfruit and other normal foods is part of the balance of moths. Its the same with diona not being able to wear magboots/noslips, or vox constantly needing nitrogen, or arachnids metabolizing chems slower/asphyxing faster.

[hyperDelegate]

I don't think moths should be able to eat gatfruit normally. However, I think that giving moths the ability to like, bite open the gatfruit with a longer doafter and then spit the gatfruit shreds out (creating a small crumpled up gatfruit item that would be easily disposed of through a recycler or reclaimer) would be a better way of doing this.

This sounds like unnecessary item bloat tbh. Not that I don't think it would be interesting.

Moths can already get around this issue by feeding the gat to a mouse. I don't see how this change would have any actual negative impact on anyone or anything.

It actually is a balance thing re: being able to reload by eating them mid fight. The PR that added the seeds to the uplink didn't have any discussion of how it impacts moths #9766

[SlimmSlamm]

The PR that added the seeds to the uplink didn't have any discussion of how it impacts moths

It didn't have a discussion because moths were not even PR'd at the time of this discussion. Moths cannot eat pills because they aren't cloth and its balanced around this. Why should we make exceptions now? If this is going to be accepted then all race downsides should be removed due to balancing.

[saintlygold]

Moths cannot eat pills because they aren't cloth and its balanced around this. Why should we make exceptions now? If this is going to be accepted then all race downsides should be removed due to balancing.

Moths can eat pills by putting them into water. This makes taking pills take one second longer than normal. This is not a 'downside,' this is anti-QOL that is in place to make the species 'stand out' more when it already does by having several other issues and bugs with it as a species, alongside looking unique and having funny voicequotes.

Again, you're using a strawman argument to dismiss the claims here. What balancing issues would this impose on the game? Nobody uses Gatfruit anyways. Again; it is easily metagameable, TC inefficient compared to just buying something like an EPen or Viper, and you have to deal with your co-workers realizing you're a traitor. Nobody uses Gatfruit because it sucks; and it sucks slightly more for moths by making it annoying for them to even use.

I have no idea how a PR like this is so controversial when it's about one of the arguably worst species ingame getting one new interaction with an extremely underutilized, extremely underpowered traitor uplink item for one species in a game of eight, for one job out of dozens.

This isn't a Liltenhead video. You're not going to see four moths going botanist and all buying gatfruit if this goes through. This is an absurdly off-meta strategy with already questionable design around it being made slightly more convenient for a species that is already regarded as bottom three in terms of benefits (arguably worst imo) but that's not the point here. Are there any real balance issues to the merge other than "combat reloading out of plant bags?" When's the last time you've seen someone do that with Gatfruit?

[SlimmSlamm]

this is anti-QOL

Okay by this logic we should allow all Diona to wear shoes. It's extremely anti QOL. Vox shouldn't be poisoned by oxygen anymore. That's just a QOL issue. Dwarves shouldn't be shoved over easily because again. QOL issue.

[ArtisticRoomba]

When I was poking at this issue after seeing it in ideaguys I tried to make the food sliceable, but that ended up duplicating the pythons. I also tried to make it through the construction menu, it errored out, and I just got bored and worked on something more urgent.

Perhaps it would be best to make gatfruit cuttable into the revolver? Think that would be a much better option for moths instead of violating intentional species balance and introducing inconsistency.

[MozarteanChaos]

Despite what the comment swarm has determined I think this is a perfectly fine change that just makes traitor botanist a bit easier as a moth.

It completely removes the negatives from picking a Moth as a race though.

I think this is a slight exaggeration. It removes one aspect of one of their negatives, not the entire thing, and certainly not every single negative. They still cannot eat the majority of foods that're edible to other species, and still suffer from their increased heat damage - this PR just makes them a bit better as botanist traitors.
This does impact balance, and it may be negative, but I don't think it's completely overturning it in the way you're suggesting.
To be clear, I have no horse in this race, as I do not use gatfruit and thus have no strong opinions on gatfruit balance - I just find this particular comment bothersome.

[saintlygold]

this is anti-QOL

Okay by this logic we should allow all Diona to wear shoes. It's extremely anti QOL. Vox shouldn't be poisoned by oxygen anymore. That's just a QOL issue. Dwarves shouldn't be shoved over easily because again. QOL issue.

I'm just going to assume you're purposely ignoring the point here, because I've explained the difference between an actual species downside and anti-QOL enough by now. Diona CANNOT CIRCUMVENT their weakness of no shoes or noslips. Moths can circumvent their weakness of not being able to eat one specific item in the game by feeding it to a randomly spawned mouse around the map.
Dwarves CANNOT CIRCUMVENT their lesser shove resist chances. Moths can circumvent their weakness of not being able to eat pills by clicking on an item in their inventory to solute the pill into water inside.
Voxes, while their n2 usage is basically just a QOL issue turned into a core mechanic, at least has some impact on planning as either one of your back or pocket slots is going to be consistently used up by a tank, and Security or Traitors will likely purposely mistreat you if you're jailed or treated by them through keeping n2 from you in order for a chance to RR and not deal with you anymore.

Stop and read what I've typed out in my past couple of comments & this one as well before you try and add fuel to the fire please, this isn't some colossal balancing act that will shift the meta as I've already explained.

[hyperDelegate]

Hello ideagays please stop whinign I am making them cuttable instead one moment

[august-sun]

Yeah, I'm definitely on the side that this should just be a natural hindrance that moths should have, unless similar accommodations are made for other items and species. If you want to continue fixing issues like these for other species as well, I'm here for it, but my issue lies in the consistency.

[hyperDelegate]

Reworked for slicing not eating to make the ideagays happy, leaving for walk now.

[Minemoder5000]

Assuming this works as advertised, this solution works for its intended purpose as well as other future species or downstream species that can't eat these fruits.

[Aisu9]

This is the intention though with picking a race. Not every race is going to be able to do everything. Take a look at Diona and how they cannot wear shoes at all. This makes them very bad for most combative roles like Nukie, Salvage and, Security as they cant wear magboots or noslips. If moths are going to be allowed to eat something that they cannot digest then Diona should be able to wear magboots and noslips.

i remember there was a PR that was pretty close to be merged that wanted to force human race for every nuclear operative

[ArtisticRoomba]

I'm of the opinion that uplink items should be species neutral. There are obvious exceptions to this, see dionas and noslips/magboots. But in this instance, it's such a simple and viable change to make and doesn't really affect balance that much IMO.

When species design docs are merged, we'll have a more concrete way of dealing with these things. But for now I think this change is fine.

[SlimmSlamm]

ut in this instance, it's such a simple and viable change

It's about being consistent though.

[ArtisticRoomba]

ut in this instance, it's such a simple and viable change

It's about being consistent though.

Yeah... that's what I'm arguing for. Making it cuttable. Not introducing inconsistency by making this certain thing edible to moths when the big unique thing about the species is that they eat cloth and nothing else.